I see so many people in turmoil over this debate and it’s legal outcomes, and yet so few care to even discuss the legitimacy of any court or government to rule either way.

To put all of this another way, the continued acceptance of any group’s false authority over what are God-given inalienable rights will come back to bite us, and we all know where.

#1 (first exception)…”will have to be”…but this has already occured in MA where a father was thrown in jail for a night for interfering in the new gay marriage-centered curriculum in his kid’s public school.

#2…”may be”…not “has been”
#3…”will be”…not “has been”
#4…”may be”…not “has been”
#5…”may be”…not “has been”

#6 (second exception)…”will” and “will bring”…what? lawsuits? Oh no, that would NEVER happen in America…a lawyer bringing a lawsuit. Give me a break.

You know, suppose SCOTUS’s balance of power is altered…and now we have pro-life majority in the Court and Roe v. Wade is in jeopardy of being overturned. Are you telling me that pro-abortion advocates (and their libertarian friends…and their LDS friends whose sister or mother had to have an abortion at some point in their lives, and who now throw aside reason and principle because it’s “personal” now) wouldn’t print a full-page ad in the NYT about the “303 Consequences of Repealing Roe v. Wade”?

Of the Six Consequences, number 1 has occured and number 6 is soooooo going to happen because of the nature of our legal system and how it is used by the Left to get what they want when “the people” (you know, like “for the people”) have the great sense to not follow some idiotic policy path.

The other four consequences are neither empty speculation…the gay movement is pathological in its quest to gain public approbation. Since Stonewall, they have filed every lawsuit they can imagine to push their quest for acceptance…yes, for what they do, though they believe it’s for who they are. And it seems fit punishment to them to throw someone in jail at any point for just THINKING differently…not actually doing something, like having promiscuous sex in a public place or something like that.

Lastly, most of you who post here cannot remember (maybe weren’t even born yet) when the LDS Church was challenged for years on blacks in the priesthood and women in the priesthood. I was baptized on the day that the revelation on blacks was sustained in GC…and I lived in VA when the ERA was at its height and VA was THE key state…and a few LDS picketers (and their non-member, Mormon-hating, feminist supporters) stood outside a regional conference at the then-Captial Center shouting at members as they drove by.

My point is that I have witnessed apostasy over these sorts of issues. And I pray that LDS members hung up on this particular issue of gay marriage can recover their reason and faith to, at least, keep their struggle of faith to themselves so that the pressures of apostasy don’t overwhlem them.

For those of you who consider yourselves faithful Latter-day Saints, take a step back, above the trees of contentious debate, and look introspectively at which way you are facing. For those of you supporting gay marriage, you will look around a see your Brethren across the chasm of faith.

Legal arguments, political contenions, and speculations will come and go. Anybody can be right or wrong at any given time. But for faithful Latter-day Saints, this is a no-brainer. Face the right way or you might find yourselves out of the Church of your own doing.

Not preaching…I just care about you all.

No worries, buddy. I do appreciate your words. It’s a combustible issue for certain as it mixes all of the most potent dimensions of politics – religion, rights, morality and such. It can get a bit heated sometimes, but I think for the most part all of us in this thread (yourself included) are doing a pretty good job of making good arguments and considering the other side.

I look forward to reading more of your arguments on this.

I certainly did not intend for my comments to be an attack on your beliefs, or values. The tone of the language used in your original post (damned lies, viral rumors, etc…). Put me, and likely several others, on the defensive, as many of the same points were detailed by the church itself.

I certainly wasn’t attempting to single you out with my comments, but I do think that you can’t separate religion from this issue. It is THE issue. It is not simply an LDS issue but many faiths are supporting this position or similar ones. Anyone who is at odds with their church over an issue is in a difficult spot, regardless of the particular faith.

Trying to take religion out of an issue like this, is very difficult (for the religiously inclined), and regardless of religious persuasion will likely create some internal as well as external conflicts. Again I sincerely apologize if you felt I judged or condemned you personally, it truly was not my intent. I should have more carefully chosen my words , as with such a charged issue, the slightest misunderstanding can lead to hurt feelings, and detract from a very important discussion which needs to take place.

You are right about Catholic Charities – I believe they shut down in Mass. because they specifically chose to rely on the state’s definition of marriage when they stood in the shoes of the state by placing children in state custody with families. Since LDS adoption services doesn’t do any of these things (i.e. act in place of the state), Prop 8. will not affect LDS adoption services in California. It is because distinctions like this aren’t being made that I think the “Six Consequences” document is misleading.

Also, if you read the rebuttal, you may notice that the California Education Code already requires that other committed relationships be discussed on equal footing with marriage, and has for some years. California also has liberal parental consent and opt-out laws. It’s clear that Prop 8 doesn’t affect these provisions that are already in the Education Code.

School management is extremely local in the U.S. though, and this issue will be hashed out between parents and local school boards to reflect community standards as have many other similar issues, such as banned books and sex ed. There is little reason to think that this issue is any different.

I will always trust my faith and doctrine to reveal what is right and wrong before I will trust the government to do the same. I will then take it upon myself to teach my children this regardless of what the public education system tries to teach.

With all that said, I would like to state that it is up to the members and leaders of the LDS faith to decide whether or not to fight the California constitutional amendment for traditional marriage. I don’t like those that are outside the LDS faith proclaiming that the Church has no business getting involved in another state’s law making. The LDS Church does not just live in Utah but is worldwide and therefore has a direct interest in politics worldwide. That said, I believe they would do best to tread lightly.

I also find it interesting that the individuals that were crying foul about the outside money and efforts that were put into defeating the School Voucher Program her in Utah are now heavily involved in this effort in California. Conversely, many who seemed to have no problem receiving the help from outside sources on the voucher issue are now the same ones complaining about the efforts of some Utahan’s to affect California law.

#2 – Rather than assuming that a federal law is infallible and we should, therefore, forget everything we’ve been taught about respect and love our whole lives, maybe we should second-guess a system that would punish an entire religion for choosing to follow their own doctrine. Take GregF’s advice and look into the future – what kind of slippery slope are we in store for if we let our government push religions into unnecessary tough decisions? On the other side of that coin, there is no slippery slope to allowing people to free, as and good LDS person knows that God intended, and allowing religions to practice as they see fit.

#3 – Again, rather than forcing someone to adhere to our belief system, something we would all hate to be subjected to, why not in stead change the system that would suggest that no adoption service is better than a religiously convicted one.

#’s 4, 5 & 6 – See 2 & 3.

There is no doubt that this is a complex issue, considering the unprecedented participation of the church in a political procedure, but please remember that there are tests in this life, often very hard ones. No matter how you would choose to vote regarding Prop 8, don’t let your judgement become clouded. We may all agree that Prop 8 is great, we may even all take the same bus to our voting booths or support centers on its behalf, but don’t fall pray to the deceit. If you’re thinking about this issue the way you aught to be, these 6 consequences are as obvious an attempt to take you personally off the right track as any of Satan’s other plots and plans.

I know how hard it is, believe me, but we can all support each other rather than letting it tear us apart.