Anti-gay ad in the Salt Lake Tribune: Talk amongst yourselves.
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I am weary of the many different versions of: “Look, I have lots of gay friends and even they don’t want the right to marry. They know marriage is all about reproducing, and that they can’t do it, so they don’t care.”
Hogwash.
People who are gay also fall in love, want to marry that person, and reproduce with that person. It takes a little extra effort, but they can do it.
Additionally, it is often gay parents who take on those babies who are already born and no one else wants, and thank god they do for those babies’ sakes.
But for some strange reason, these babies are expendable; why else is it acceptable for gay parents to bring them into their homes to raise them, but not for them to have and raise their own?
And spare me the “they don’t want it” nonsense. If they’re telling you that to your face, they’re keeping it in the closet.” I suspect this is because they can tell, just like we can, that you’re not going to like it.
Jaynee
Kaye said: “I’m straight but I have plenty of gay friends”
“I choose not to associate myself with certain groups of people b/c I DON’T WANT TO”
Kind of contradictory there bud. By the way, not everyone that supports gay marriage is gay… just to clear that one up for you.
Kaye said: “That’s like Hitler and being a Nazi”
Right, and if you aren’t gay they will throw you in a gas chamber.
Good to see that Godwin’s Law is alive and well on the Internets.
See? Again, typical lefty…you just have to take everything out of context. Classic example of having nothing better to do but further your own agenda.
As I said, yes, I have many gay friends and I choose to associate with them b/c they are my friends…they don’t try to cram their lifestyle down everyone’s throats, which is why we get along. They live their lives like normal people do. They are gay, so what? They don’t feel the need to broadcast their lifestyle or impress it upon kids in school or anyone else…they just don’t care.
I was referring to the statements that you chose to ignore…I CHOOSE not to associate with druggies and I CHOOSE not to associate with prostitutes or hookers. Nothing stated there is contradictory at all.
In reference to the Hitler comment: I feel that the gays (and other people with agendas) do whatever they can to get their agenda out into the mainstream. People who (in this case) oppose the gay lifestyle (and those that would rather ignore it) are labeled “close minded, ignorant rednecks” and are basically verbally persecuted by the agenda pushers. When liberals want something done, they become vicious, as shown by the liberal biased media during this monstrosity of an election. It’s amazing how similar their political tactics are to Hitler’s. He basically demonized what he didn’t like, got everybody biased and divided and paranoid against everybody else. When it was done, it was easy for him to sweep through and push his agenda straight to the top. Now obviously, liberals haven’t physically committed a mass genocide, but verbally, they are. They turn everyone into “bigots” or “racists” all in the name of pushing their agendas. I just don’t understand why they won’t leave anyone alone.
After homosexuality is thoroughly entrenched in the textbooks, cinema and day to day life, what’s next? Where does it stop? THAT is why everyone gets so upset.
“By the way, not everyone that supports gay marriage is gay… just to clear that one up for you.”
Keep in mind also that not everyone that opposes gay marriage is straight…as proven by my friends.
Kaye, I am going to attempt to answer your posts in a polite and clear (and brief) manner. Definitely feel encouraged to respond to this one even if your post gets buried in snarky and aggressive replies.
A)Infertile straight couples can marry.
B)It is not at all clear how granting committed gay couples the civil rights of marriage is “forcing” anyone (except the couple in question) to “accept” anything. How is this at all comparable to your hypothetical equivalents – forcing people to attend church or carry guns? The latter measures would entail intrusion and force. Nothing of the kind is necessitated by gay marriage.
c)Two men or women kissing could happen (and be witnessed by children) with or without gay marriage.
That’s all for now. Do you have an actual response to these points?
i’m one of the models in the photo used by america forever for this homophobic ad (I’m the short one with the glasses). i was horrified that bigots had used a depiction of me kissing someone to pedal their hate. but when i read all the awesome comments on this blog, i realized that when homophobes spout off, it inspires decent folks to stand up to them. so, i guess the image of me kissing (a totally hot) guy kind of back-fired on them.
As I said, yes, I have many gay friends and I choose to associate with them b/c they are my friends…they don’t try to cram their lifestyle down everyone’s throats, which is why we get along.
If you say so. I really can’t say that you don’t because I don’t know. I just found the two statements contradictory because of the context they were in. I thought you were lumping gay people in with druggies and prostitutes that you don’t hang out with (because you were using them in comparison, otherwise it wouldn’t make sense to include them when talking about gay people).
In reference to the Hitler comment: I feel that the gays (and other people with agendas) do whatever they can to get their agenda out into the mainstream.
Of course, people who oppose gay marriage do not say anything negative against people that are for gay marriage, or try to get their message spread by the media… like newspapers or television commercials for example. People who oppose gay marriage don’t have an agenda at all and the advertisement that this post centers on doesn’t exist. Hitler comparisons are almost always rooted in logical fallacy, and are usually used by people who can’t see how their poor comparisons ironically apply to them in the exact same context.
After homosexuality is thoroughly entrenched in the textbooks, cinema and day to day life, what’s next? Where does it stop? THAT is why everyone gets so upset.
The slippery slope is another common fallacy used against gay marriage.
“Keep in mind also that not everyone that opposes gay marriage is straight…as proven by my friends.”
That is fine, but it does not invalidate the wish of others that do support gay marriage.
“I’m sure gays don’t appreciate a lot of things like that either…but it’s like you guys are making it a point to infiltrate normal people’s lives with your lifestyle.”
This is what you said, but maybe it slipped your mind that not everyone that supports gay marriage is gay. That is what I sad in response to what you said… but I included what I was responding to here in case you forgot. Say I am twisting your words all over again if you want, but here is what you said and your post is right above it so anybody can read it “in context”.
Biologically, we are supposed to perpetuate the species by having children. A same sex couple just physically can’t, therefore, there really is no point to the relationship. It’s a dead end…which is why the constant battle for marriage rights is just a joke.
In the 21st century, this is an irrelevant argument. Many married couples choose not to have children. Many are infertile. Others adopt, others get assistance via fertility medicine. If you are going to ban marriage to gays and lesbians on this argument, you would also have to include all of the people I listed above.
Oh, and you do know women have children out of wedlock these days, right? You don’t have to be married to have a child. Biology doesn’t work that way, even though you claim to be an expert on it. But I appreciate your efforts at trying to sound coherent.
Ah, and I forgot to mention that many people get married out of this concept called “love.” I know, I know – it sounds totally crazy.
And if you think childless couples have nothing to contribute to society, I think you should read up on George Washington and James Madison – both married and never fathered children with their wives. Whoops. Guess they were biological failures then!
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Quit trying to find something to get offended about. No…I was not lumping gays in with druggies, however, the scenario is similar. If you had children that started hanging out with known druggies, wouldn’t you be concerned? You wouldn’t want them to hang out with those people b/c you don’t agree with it. You don’t want them thinking that drugs are a good thing b/c in your opinion, they aren’t. You can’t expect a child to make an appropriate decision as to whether drugs are good for them or dangerous…they are children.
That is one of the points the LDS are trying to make. It seems that gays are trying to impress their lifestyle upon everyone for some reason and there are a lot of people that disagree. The main point is that we should be able to choose what our children are exposed to, not have other people choose for us. And if we don’t want to be exposed to it, we shouldn’t be verbally abused by anyone. Why should I be called a bigot for shielding something from my children that I don’t agree with? Let them get older and make the decision on their own.
I don’t think it is the state’s job or the federal govt’s job to be allowing homosexuality in schools, nor is it a lobbyists job to be petitioning for it…you see what they do when they get control…for example, they do a fantastic job of teaching kids all about drugs by showing them everything they need to know in health class…why don’t we just go ahead and teach them what their sexual orientation should be while we are teaching them how to toke up? I never knew anything about drugs or booze before I went to health class and watched all the stupid videos.
Leave it up to the parents to decide how material like this should be shown to their kids. And if they don’t want their kids to see it, don’t attack them.
“Of course, people who oppose gay marriage do not say anything negative against people that are for gay marriage, or try to get their message spread by the media… like newspapers or television commercials for example. People who oppose gay marriage don’t have an agenda at all and the advertisement that this post centers on doesn’t exist.”
But that’s the problem…they should be able to say their opinion but they can’t. If they do, the agenda pushers use the “squeaky wheel gets the grease” tactic by pulling a Joy Behar on everybody. They start screaming “bigot” or “redneck” or any number of rude things. They make it seem “uncool” to have an opposing opinion instead of respecting other people’s right to disagree.
“The slippery slope is another common fallacy used against gay marriage.”
Slippery slope? Nah, I’d call it the “snowball effect.” Give them an inch and they take a mile. See, you can’t even answer my original question. Instead of telling me where it will stop after they achieve their agenda, you turn it around and try to negate that it’s a valid concern. There are uncountable situations out there where one little thing ended up spawning the biggest problem ever. Example: the IRS. Give them a penny and years later, they get damn near half of your wages. So, after they breathe their lifestyle down everyone’s throats in the name of “acceptance,” what will they start working on next?
““Keep in mind also that not everyone that opposes gay marriage is straight…as proven by my friends.”
That is fine, but it does not invalidate the wish of others that do support gay marriage.
“I’m sure gays don’t appreciate a lot of things like that either…but it’s like you guys are making it a point to infiltrate normal people’s lives with your lifestyle.”
This is what you said, but maybe it slipped your mind that not everyone that supports gay marriage is gay. That is what I sad in response to what you said… but I included what I was responding to here in case you forgot. Say I am twisting your words all over again if you want, but here is what you said and your post is right above it so anybody can read it “in context”.”
What on Earth are you talking about? lol. Not everyone that supports gay marriage is gay…not everyone that opposes gay marriage is straight. So?? Truce? lol.
OH THIS IS SOOOO AMERICAN!!!! AND IT IS SOOOO RELIGIOUS!!!!
STRAIGHT = GOOD, GAY = WRONG!!!!
ARE YOU STILL LIVING IN THE 14TH CENTURY? OH, YOU AMERICANS DID NOT EVEN EXIST THAT TIME…
Kaye…this message is for you. Try a different perspective when trying to understand what gay people are trying to achieve in this country. Instead of taking the notion that we’re trying to force our lifestyle down your throat, which we certainly are not, why not try reading the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution. The “All men are created equal, and with certain inalienable rights” part. This country belongs to everyone…not just the heterosexual majority, but everyone that lives here. That includes gay people as well. My right to happiness, and the liberty to live my life however I choose is guaranteed under the constitution of the United States. If our government does not follow the guarantees of that document, then the rule of law in this country means nothing. I’m sorry if that’s unpleasant to you…freedom is not a monopoly of the majority in this country, it is a gift for everyone. Gay Americans included. Deal with it!!!
I’ve been saying it for years: the fervently religious are given far too much freedom in the press. A love of god is no excuse to have your head up your ass. God sucks because he doubles as a vehicle for this anti-social bullshit and, apparently a justification for people to quote a bible verse just before saying something that would make Hitler vomit.
Kaye, I know this is probably pointless, but please realize that this one of the reasons why people who support full, equal rights for gays (i.e. “leftys” or “agenda pushers” in your parlance) get so frustrated: a lack of rationality from their opponents. For example, both Sarah and I have raised one specific, clear argument against your position – that infertile straight couples can marry, and presumably those marriages are not “pointless” in your view – and you completely ignore it. I would suggest this is typical of people on your “side” of the argument. You are not taking a genuine argumentative stance at all; instead you are simply making a series of inaccurate analogies and incoherent arguments that boil down to two things: hatred and fear.
My guess is, if you choose to respond to this post at all, you will once again fail to address any of the substantive arguments made against your position, and instead offer more vague prattle about the liberal agenda.
ARE THESE THE SAME TYPE OF PEOPLE THAT SAID AFRICAN AMERICANS COULD NOT VOTE…HUM WHO IS OUR PRESIDENT?
IS THIS THEIR WAY OF CONTRIBUTING TO THE STIMULAS PACKAGE? I UNDERSTAND THIS AD COST $15,000.
What happens in Utah should stay in Utah.
I have some points to make, if I may, regarding Kaye’s recent post activity. Kaye, I firt want to thank you for posting and commend you on standing up for your beliefs in a place where there was little evidence of support. This may just be a message board, but that’s still brave. On to my points:
– ” If you had children that started hanging out with known druggies, wouldn’t you be concerned? You wouldn’t want them to hang out with those people b/c you don’t agree with it. You don’t want them thinking that drugs are a good thing b/c in your opinion, they aren’t. You can’t expect a child to make an appropriate decision as to whether drugs are good for them or dangerous…they are children.”
By the time my children are old enough to start hanging out with other children unattended, if they can’t make up their own minds about what’s good or bad for them to ingest, inject, or inhale, I’ll count myself a failure as a parent. If your relationship with your children is one of support, respect, and faith, you should have nothing to worry about – you should be cooler in their eyes than their friends, forgiving enough that they never have to hide anything from you, and open enough that they come to you with their questions before any other person. That’s the relationship I had with my parents growing up, and it’s always been high on my list when I count my blessings.
– “That is one of the points the LDS are trying to make. It seems that gays are trying to impress their lifestyle upon everyone for some reason and there are a lot of people that disagree.”
Do me a favor and never opt to speak on my behalf again. I mean that in the nicest way possible. : )
– “The main point is that we should be able to choose what our children are exposed to, not have other people choose for us. And if we don’t want to be exposed to it, we shouldn’t be verbally abused by anyone. Why should I be called a bigot for shielding something from my children that I don’t agree with?”
The trouble is, you have no right to go out in public with your children and start telling everyone around you what they can and cannot do. If you did, you’d have to grant the same right to everyone else, and soon you and your children wouldn’t be allowed to so much as look at each other because SOMEONE would be offended.
Honestly, if you don’t want to have to explain anything difficult to your children, you’re going to have to seal them up in the basement and pass food under the door. Otherwise, get used to them experiencing things you’re going to have to have “one of those talks” with them about. But this isn’t a bad thing; when do you want your kids to be exposed to something new, when you’re around to help or when they’re on their own?
– “I don’t think it is the state’s job or the federal govt’s job to be allowing homosexuality in schools, nor is it a lobbyists job to be petitioning for it…”
Homosexuality doesn’t exist because it’s allowed to, no matter what you believe about the alternative sexes. Let’s pretend like I believe the following, which I don’t: “Homosexuality is a choice, a perversion, it does not occur naturally, and it’s just one of Satan’s plots to cause us all misery and grief”. If this is the case, there is nothing we can do to stop it, and the best thing we can do is reach out to homosexuals with a message of love and peace in Christ. Now let’s look at how I really feel: “Homosexuality, like all sexuality, is not a choice but a natural, instinctive neuro-biological preference to which our psychological makeup is tied to widely varying degrees”. Here, again, we find that homosexuality persists without regard to any one person’s opinion about it and our best course of action is to lump it into the same category of acceptance as everything else in life.
My point here is that the fight to have any fact-of-life information banned, especially those that concern the nature of other free people, is a futile and wasteful fight. Stay home from the angry PTA meetings and talk to your kids. Turn over the picket signs and use the blank side to finger-paint on with your son or daughter. Spend your time teaching your morality to your kids, not fighting to have someone else teach your morality to someone else’s kids.
– ” I never knew anything about drugs or booze before I went to health class and watched all the stupid videos.”
…And, presumably, since health class you’ve become a drunkard and a coke-fiend. It’s a good thing I never learned much about drugs, because ignorance of a subject is the best defense against it, right? How can you defend against an enemy that you know something about? *that was all sarcasm, but please don’t take it as mean-spirited*
– “why don’t we just go ahead and teach them what their sexual orientation should be while we are teaching them how to toke up?”
If anyone out there can remember the moment in their life when they chose their sexuality, please let me know. Bonus points if the conscious sexual-preference choice that caused your body to start responding physically to various situations was influenced heavily by your health teacher.
– “Leave it up to the parents to decide how material like this should be shown to their kids. And if they don’t want their kids to see it, don’t attack them.”
Now this I can totally and unquestioningly agree with you on. That said, please refer back to the concept that you can’t go into a common place and expect anyone to alter their behavior just because you said so. If you feel like you need complete control over everything your child is exposed to, stay on your own property. Otherwise, use the golden rule liberally when you’re out and about.
– “They start screaming “bigot” or “redneck” or any number of rude things. They make it seem “uncool” to have an opposing opinion instead of respecting other people’s right to disagree.”
It’s ignorant to expect anyone to respect your right to disagree, especially if you don’t respect theirs FIRST. It’s not “do unto others as they have already done unto you” it’s “do unto other as you would have them do unto you” – the golden rule lays the responsibility on you to be “the bigger man”, so to speak. Consider that next time you voice your disagreement. I bring that up for the following reason:
In an argument where one side wants to be able to legally marry whom they choose because they currently cannot, and the other side can marry whom they choose and refuse to grant the same ability to their opposition is not a level argument.
To all who read this: Who are you to refuse anyone those rights that you take advantage of without remorse? And if you’re a Christian: Do you honestly feel righteous assuming that God has granted you dominion over another of his children because of what sexually arouses you?
Can anyone out there honestly explain to me why some people are made so uncomfortable by another person’s sexuality that they would actually go to such a great length just to oppose it’s acceptance in such a general way?
I ask this assuming that the “laws will be passed that make them a higher class of citizen” argument is bunk – I can’t make myself believe that there are any amount of people ignorant enough to truly hold that argument at the center of their justification to themselves.
- “They start screaming “bigot” or “redneck” or any number of rude things. They make it seem “uncool” to have an opposing opinion instead of respecting other people’s right to disagree.”
Step 1: Make bigotry uncool.
Step 2: …
Step 3: Gas chambers for heterosexuals.
“If you had children that started hanging out with known druggies, wouldn’t you be concerned? You wouldn’t want them to hang out with those people b/c you don’t agree with it. You don’t want them thinking that drugs are a good thing b/c in your opinion, they aren’t. You can’t expect a child to make an appropriate decision as to whether drugs are good for them or dangerous…they are children.”
I am not aware of any legislation that would dictate who you have to allow your children to associate with. People supportive of gay rights would tend to disagree that gayness is immoral, but that does not stop you from acting on your own convictions. Wrong as they may be.
“That is one of the points the LDS are trying to make. It seems that gays are trying to impress their lifestyle upon everyone for some reason and there are a lot of people that disagree.”
Not wanting to have to hide from the light of day is not “impressing their lifestyle” on anyone.
“The main point is that we should be able to choose what our children are exposed to, not have other people choose for us. And if we don’t want to be exposed to it, we shouldn’t be verbally abused by anyone. Why should I be called a bigot for shielding something from my children that I don’t agree with? Let them get older and make the decision on their own.”
Calling you a bigot won’t stop you from following your values and doing what you can to overprotect your children. Or maybe you’re just ultra-sensitive, and any criticism makes it impossible for you to function.
More likely with your “they’re forcing us to see their lifestyle,” nonsense and what you really just saying you don’t want gay people to be allowed in public.
“I don’t think it is the state’s job or the federal govt’s job to be allowing homosexuality in schools,”
Right. Allowing gay people to go to school oppresses straight people.
“nor is it a lobbyists job to be petitioning for it…you see what they do when they get control…for example, they do a fantastic job of teaching kids all about drugs by showing them everything they need to know in health class…why don’t we just go ahead and teach them what their sexual orientation should be while we are teaching them how to toke up? I never knew anything about drugs or booze before I went to health class and watched all the stupid videos.”
Health class videos, if they mention it at all, say there is no “should” when it comes to one’s sexual orientation. Anti-gay bigots for some reason think that everyone would be gay if they had a choice, so giving people a choice is effectively making them gay.
“Leave it up to the parents to decide how material like this should be shown to their kids. And if they don’t want their kids to see it, don’t attack them.”
Again, criticism is not oppression.
“But that’s the problem…they should be able to say their opinion but they can’t. If they do, the agenda pushers use the “squeaky wheel gets the grease” tactic by pulling a Joy Behar on everybody. They start screaming “bigot” or “redneck” or any number of rude things. They make it seem “uncool” to have an opposing opinion instead of respecting other people’s right to disagree.”
No, it is you who does not respect other people’s right to disagree. You argue against the morality of gay people. Other people criticize your argument and point out the bigotry inherent in it. And somehow they’ve taken away your right to free speech?
As to the “bigotry is uncool” thing, that is cultural influence that the gay rights movement are increasingly winning as people more and more, of their own volition, come to agree with them. The problem for the bigots is that for the most part, gay people aren’t closeted anymore. Acceptance of gay people has mushroomed over the last decade (though actual gayness rates have stayed the same of course) because straight people know openly gay people in their lives–friends, family, co-workers. They see that they are normal people, with principles and failings like everyone else. You can’t fight it, and all your whining about how your bigotry is rapidly losing credibility will not change it. Your moaning that this cultural change, caused by people voluntarily changing their minds, is somehow coerced or illegitimate does not make it so.
“The slippery slope is another common fallacy used against gay marriage.”
Slippery slope? Nah, I’d call it the “snowball effect.” Give them an inch and they take a mile. See, you can’t even answer my original question. Instead of telling me where it will stop after they achieve their agenda, you turn it around and try to negate that it’s a valid concern. There are uncountable situations out there where one little thing ended up spawning the biggest problem ever. Example: the IRS. Give them a penny and years later, they get damn near half of your wages. So, after they breathe their lifestyle down everyone’s throats in the name of “acceptance,” what will they start working on next?
“Slippery slope? Nah, I’d call it the “snowball effect.” Give them an inch and they take a mile. See, you can’t even answer my original question. Instead of telling me where it will stop after they achieve their agenda, you turn it around and try to negate that it’s a valid concern. There are uncountable situations out there where one little thing ended up spawning the biggest problem ever. Example: the IRS. Give them a penny and years later, they get damn near half of your wages. So, after they breathe their lifestyle down everyone’s throats in the name of “acceptance,” what will they start working on next?”
Missed this paragraph. Not much new here. Again you are confusing people’s right to exist in the open with forcing their lifestyle on others.
Makes me want to quit the negotiation with the LDS church to purchase my domain names and donate them to the Gay and Lesbian groups that could use the help in getting the truth out that these ads are HATE!!!
http://www.LDSexposed.com
http://www.themormonutah.com
http://www.theutahmormon.com
They’re attempting to shove their lifestyle down your throat? You’re attempting to shove your morals down the throat of society, bud. If you don’t support same-sex marriage, don’t have one.
Seriously? SERIOUSLY? How closed minded can you be? I know we live in Utah, but seriously? I’m straight and I am seriously offended by this. Yes, homosexuals do deserve the same damn rights that everyone else has. They are HUMAN, hence the term Human Rights.
I love how you people try to discredit the article/poster by taking about how silly and poorly done it is. But really since when does using too many bold and fonts have to do with whether or not the content is correct.
“…since when does using too many bold and fonts have to do with whether or not the content is correct.”
You are right, the presentation doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the credibility of the content. Even if this ad was well done visually, it is still full of inaccuracies based on hatred for other human beings.
Pingback: Apparently, I can’t stop « Around Teh Table
I don’t know what’s funnier – Kaye’s weird blinkered round-robin arguments, or the main populace trying to reason with her when she’s clearly not interested in any kind of sane, measured consideration of the issue. Either way, it’s a good thing I haven’t run out of popcorn!
@Dan
maybe Utah could leave with Texas…
People who oppose gay marriage ABSOLUTELY have an agenda. There agenda is banning same sex marriage. EVERYONE has an agenda. Nothing would happen in life if we didn’t. We in the GLBT community want to be recognized as equals. We don’t want to be treated like second class citizens. We deserve the right to choose to be married because we are human beings. We don’t want to make you gay, we don’t want to make your kids gay… I don’t know if I will ever get married, but I deserve the chance to. I am a proud gay man and being gay does not make me a bad person. I don’t care how many people think that loving another man makes me inferior to them. I know I am equal and will help fight the hate, bigotry and injustice towards my community.
@Hari Narayan Khalsa
well let’s see…
your beliefs on gays and gay marriage seems be a part of your lifestyle. Seems to me you’re forcing your lifestyle on me. You’re forcing your beliefs on me. You’re breathing down my throat and your breath stinks!
to answer your previous question… We will stop when we are recognized as true equals with all the rights, benefits, and opportunities as our heterosexual counterparts.
oh yeah
If the LDS Church is so concerned about people trying to force their lifestyle on everyone else then maybe they should rethink their missionary program… I think they force their lifestyle on others way more than gays do
“Blue Eyed Ash Blonde” Lesbian Seeks Utah Civil Rights – Cheryl E. Haws LCSW
Governor Herbert,
In a recent news article I read your comments to the gay rights activists here in Utah. You commented that discriminating against gay people is wrong – but you said that “There’s no need for a law to prevent it.”
I wanted to explain why I disagree and let you know how those comments hurt me. You also stated, “Where do you stop? I mean that’s the problem going down that slippery road. Pretty soon we’re going to have a special law for blue-eyed blonds…or people who are losing their hair a little bit,”…”There’s some support for about anything we put out there. I’m just saying we end up getting bogged down sometimes with the minutiae of things that government has really no role to be involved in.”
Governor, let me remind you of a time not too long ago when it was illegal for a black person to sit in certain areas on the bus. Without tremendous pain over what truly was “minutiae” (small insignificant matters) as you put it; we might still be aligning with segregation policies. If it hadn’t of been for the “witness” Martin Luther King Jr. and his willingness to stand up for Rosa Park and take a stand for injustice, where would our country be today?
Let me give you examples of this “minutae” the minor details that I face each day because I am a lesbian.
1. I have been strongly persecuted by the LDS church and by LDS individuals.
• While being disciplined by the church I was asked ridiculous sexual questions. Such as “How is it that two women have sex together? ” I was humiliated and shamed for being me.
• When my son was killed in a car accident many former LDS friends could not face me as a gay person and chose to not walk by the casket. Many former friends left without talking to me- However, many came to the viewing and greeted my ex-husband and children but avoided any eye contact with me. Can you imagine how that would feel?
• My oldest daughter also determined that being gay was a terrible thing. I came out later in life so it was a shock to most of my children. Because of LDS views my oldest daughter has not allowed me to ever see my granddaughter. Currently, my granddaughter is now 14 months old. I have also not been allowed to see my grandson Tommy either since Zoey was born. (These are the biases and judgments of my own flesh and blood let alone society).
• My daughter told me that as long as I was gay and had a gay partner she would never step foot in my home and she never wanted to be in the presence of my partner.
• Other children dare not tell their dates they have a gay mom for fear they will be dumped. So I keep getting swept under the rug.
• Of the many LDS friends and associates I had while I was married, none remain as friends today.
• The persecution and constant treats that come are never ending. During my son’s Eagle court of honor people loudly while my partner was in the restroom, “I can’t believe that Cheryl would come and desecrate the church by coming in with her partner” (my own son’s eagle?).
• When my partner and I sat down in the LDS church at a table for the Eagle every person sitting at the table moved to another table.
• At the funeral dinner of my 21 year old son again, there was no room at the table for my partner and I.
• When my son got his patriarchal blessing I was not invited or told because he commented that “my presence would have destroyed the Spirit of the Lord”.
• When my son went through the temple my family all were invited but me. I was not even told by my ex-husband about the event. Because I am gay does that makes people think I don’t feel? Do they think I would want to be there to support my own son even if it was from outside? Family came from all over Utah for the event but not one family member took the time to tell me about it. I learned about the event from a small child who wasn’t old enough to go. Everyone just passed by secretly so that they wouldn’t have to deal with the gay mother.
2. After losing my job last November; I found myself without health insurance and though my partner had excellent health benefits, my two sons’ and I did not. I had been suffering from PTSD, and Major Depression yet I had to stop medical treatment because I couldn’t afford it. My partner was left with the burden of paying all the bills without my help. Do you know what it is like to need medication and to have no means of getting it? Had I been able to rely on my partners for insurance I would have not suffered as badly as I did? I lay on my bed crying for months. I attempted getting help from the State but I was given numbers of those who couldn’t help me, and was told that even if I did get medication it would only be for 7 months. I was not willing to suffer the effects of withdrawal again for it nearly killed me.
3. Additionally, I have a significant hearing loss and can only hear about 2% in each ear; at times I think that without the power of my hearing aids I would be completely disabled. I have struggled finding a job that I can do because of this. If I had basic civil rights my partner would be empowered to provide many of the things I need through her work.
My partner is a kind and loving woman who has worked as a social worker in health care (with cancer patients) for many years now. Her whole life has been about helping others heal. She has developed a social security benefit from all that work. In contrast, I had been a stay at home Mormon mother with 7 children most of my life until my divorce.
Unlike other couples if my partner should die young I wouldn’t have access to her social security benefits like other couples, because we are not legally married. Yet in my heart I feel we are married; we had a ceremony performed by a loving minister in Kona Hawaii. My partner and I wear beautiful rings as a symbol of our commitment to each other, yet we can’t even celebrate this with our families or be acknowledged as a couple anywhere in Utah. I guess you and others might say that if my own children, my own community, my own friends and my own State won’t acknowledge me because I am gay; then this is just my “Little Problem” and I should just get over it. But I tell you it is not. This is a spiritual problem and I hurt, I cry big tears, and I am in constant pain over this. I believe that one day there will be a spiritual accounting for those of us who have been treated so poorly because of these issues. I believe this because I have sat on the other side of the fence too. It wasn’t until I experienced these pains first hand that I could ever imagine what it would be like for someone.
4. At the time of my divorce I was awarded alimony. Later, I was later required to pay back the alimony because of my homosexual relationship. Yet I am not entitled to any of the financial benefits or tax assistance that marriage offers.
5. Because I am gay we were treated with bias in Utah County. Without my permission the ORS closed my case and I have not received any child support for over 40 months. I paid back all the alimony to my husband and from my calculations my ex-husband owes approximately $17,000. I again tried to open the case and have not heard from the ORS it has been two months now.
6. The Lehi Library does not have any books on homosexuality, other than books that say something is wrong with you and where you can get help to cure yourself from it. A gay youth certainly would never be able to get unbiased information about homosexuality in Lehi.
Governor Herbert, this is just the tip of the ice berg; and though my stories are small and insignificant they do matter in the bigger picture and on a higher level.
Martin Luther King Jr. was really no one of influence until that tiny experience with Rosa Park came along. Rosa Park was just your average Black African American woman who decided to stand in her power one day. She decided to be who she was born to be. She decided that she was just as good as anyone else and that she was no longer going to sit at the back of the bus feeling less than. She wasn’t going to stand up at the back of the bus either, because there were plenty of empty seats in the white section.
With more courage than we can ever imagine she decided to stand in her power; and for that she was arrested. Martin Luther King Jr. heard what happened to her and he was very concerned, he witnessed the wrong doing and his compassion set to motion the whole civil rights movement. One man was all it took. He just witnessed her. He had empathy, he chose love and nonviolent compassion, along with charity and he called upon others to stand up against the injustice too. He was arrested time and time again for his desire to promote freedom. Sometimes, one can create a movement by setting an example or by supporting people who are courageously standing in their truth. People like Rosa Park give us the chance in life to choose love. Yet we are always free to choose not to. I believe that I am here on earth to help many individuals choose love (Though it is important too, I am not talking about sexuality here). So far many have not chosen to do so.
I’m asking you Governor Herbert and everyone else who reads this document to have the courage to witness a blue eyed ash blonde lesbian that resides in Utah County. I’m asking for your heart, for your courage to change laws that hurt others. I just want basic civil rights and civil decencies and to be acknowledged as a human being somewhere in this world. I call out with all my heart in efforts to ask you to choose love by allowing my partner and I to enjoy the benefits of marriage, equality and basic civil rights.