Highlights from the Sutherland Institute forum “Undocumented Immigrants in Utah: A Civil Conversation.” From Sutherland Institute.org:
Dr. Pamela Perlich, economist and demographer at the University of Utah, and Dr. Charlie Morgan, sociologist at Brigham Young University, will respond to questions from Paul Mero, president of Sutherland Institute.
Some items of interest from the discussion (video archive here):
Dr. Morgan: It’s not the poorest of the poor. This system has been in place for a century now. We bring them in, then in economic downturns, we kick them out. 22 years of a guest worker program, followed by (in 1965) a quota being placed on immigration, and that quota (20,000) still stands. Not high enough to fill the need. First generation immigrants are far less likely to commit crimes than second or third generations (Mero quips: It’s almost like we’re really good at creating criminals here.)
Dr. Perlich: If we look at the sweep of the entire 20th century, we see growth was originally from immigration drawn by manufacturing. Middle of the century quota imposed, white women fertility rates skyrocket. Towards the end of the century, we see a construction boom, drawing immigrants again. [Note: graph of the whole century looks -- literally -- like a perfectly drawn "U."] Immigrants have been hurt more than others by recession, but the idea that they are a cause of economic downturn is a flawed correlation.
Overall, what I’m learning here is that the data on undocumented immigrants in our jails, and being arrested for serious crimes is extremely flawed, and over-inflated. What Dr. Perlich and Dr. Morgan described during this forum is an environment where data for social science research is difficult to get from immigration agencies like ICE, and that for several reasons (parole limitations, jail housing procedures and “grouping” of immigrants waiting for deportation) have overblown the number of undocumented immigrants in Utah jails.
My favorite phrase was from Dr. Perlich: “Many have ‘Baby Boomer Blinders,’ but we can overcome, and get to know our neighbors.”
Question and Answer session:
1. Racial profiling an issue?
Dr. Morgan: Very big problem. African Americans have been targeted, now Hispanics (from the crowd: “We’ve been targeted for a long time.”)
2. Seems to be a national movement behind this stuff [Arizona law, etc]. This isn’t a grassroots concern, is this a well funded national movement?
Dr. Perlich: Nothing new here. Long history of nativist attitudes. Not pointing fingers at the Utah Legislature, but it is what we’ve seen.
3. Sen. Howard Stephenson took issue with the implication that Sandstrom, Herrod, et al were bordering on nativist attitudes.
Great back and forth followed, with Stephenson arguing that securing borders and guest worker programs were the solution, and Dr. Perlich, Dr. Morgan, and Paul Mero arguing that that is only part: cultural attitudes and demonization of immigrants needs to be addressed too.
4. In all of your research, have you seen a drop in immigrants not reporting crimes for fear of deportation?
Dr. Morgan: All you have to do is look at [Salt Lake City Police Chief] Burbank’s response: We don’t want that! We have to be careful to maintain a good relationship between immigrants and local law enforcement.
5. We hear a lot about the costs [of immigration] but what are the benefits?
Dr. Perlich: Get tired of people wanting to discuss only economic impact as in “how much money do they leave behind.” Cultural impact more important. Dr. Morgan: Immigrants pay property taxes, sales taxes. Myth that immigrants “send most money home.” Only about 10% sent home.
6. Frank asks a question: Concerned that a prison building corporations (Corrections Corporations of America) and groups like ALEC behind not only the Arizona law, but also prison proposals here in Utah. Any info on that?
Dr. Perlich: Unaware of any details on that. Paul Mero: What?! People trying to influence legislation for profit? (Laughter).
